Pioneers Lori Desautels and Michael McKnight on "The Future of Educational Neuroscience" in our Schools and Communities

Welcome back to the “Neuroscience Meets SEL Podcast” this is Andrea Samadi. This interview will be broadcast on YouTube as well as on the regular podcast channel, so be sure to look for the YouTube link in the show notes if you would like to view the video. Background and Introduction: Today we have two pioneers in the field of educational neuroscience; Lori Desautels and Michael McKnight. I first found Lori from her TEDx Talk from Indianapolis[i] when I was searching for anything in the field on educational neuroscience back in 2014. It was 5 years ago that I partnered with Arizona’s Dept of Education and was urged from an Arizona educator to write another book that focused on the brain science behind learning, and back then there wasn’t as much information out there as there is now in this field. I found Judy Willis[ii], and learned about the amygdala highjack, read David Souza’s “How the Brain Learns” and John Medina’s “Brain Rules” and hired a neuroscience researcher (named Mark Robert Waldman[iii] ) so I could be sure I had the correct understanding of the brain and learning, but still needed some help to tie everything together. Finally, I found Lori, and watched her videos to understand the other parts of the brain and how they are interconnected. In Lori’s Ted Talk, she mentioned that “neuroscience and education have come together” and it’s a huge connection because every day experiences change the brain structurally and functionally—and I thought, this is incredible that we can finally explain how we can accelerate learning with this understanding of the brain. And then through Lori, had a chance to see Michael’s work and dive deeper into understanding Adverse Childhood Experiences. So, thank you for all you are both for pioneering this field, and helping so many around the world to understand what at first might seem like complex concepts, (if like most of us, we’ve not had a crash course in how our brain works) so this is groundbreaking by making this all so relatable for everyone.     I’m thrilled to finally “meet” you both, face to face, after many years of emails, social media replies. Please do follow Lori and Michael’s pages as they both share often about the impact; they are igniting in our schools today.  I will add their bios in the show notes, so you can learn more, but want to get straight into some questions.  Welcome Lori and Michael! Q1: For new people who are getting to know your work, can you give some background on how you both met and began working together, leading to you writing  your two books “Unwritten, The Story of a Living System”[iv] and your most recent book that I haven’t been able to put down “Eyes are Never Quiet: Listening Beneath the Behaviors of our Most Troubled Students”[v] and if you could explain the new movement of being trauma informed?  Q2: I can ask this next question two ways, the first focuses on the problem when I ask “what could we possibly do to make an impact on our schools and students today knowing we are in a crisis with drug use, bullying, suicide and suicide ideation, and anxiety”  or I could ask it from this point of view where we change the narrative and focus on the solution by asking “how does shifting away from the traditional disciplinary approach to acknowledge the impact of stress on behavior and our students’ ability to focus and learn” shift the results you are both seeing in our schools today?  Q3: Can you explain what educators, and parents should understand about the brain and how our emotions impact learning?  Q4: I know firsthand about stress in the classroom—my first teaching assignment was a behavioral class back in the late 1990s. Like many teachers, I burned out before I even got started and if you were to ask ANY of my friends back then, I was the least likely to quit. Chapter 1 of your book “Eyes are Never Quiet” was eye-opening and even brought tears to my eyes with the advice that Michael gave an educator (who Lori shared was her d