Cardinal George Pell with Tess Livingstone

In this episode of the Gotta Be Saints Podcast, I sit down with Tess Livingstone—Australian journalist, longtime editor at The Australian, and author of the definitive biography of the late Cardinal George Pell. Tess offers a powerful and deeply informed reflection on the life, legacy, and final years of one of the most consequential and controversial Catholic figures of our time. Drawing on years of firsthand reporting, personal interviews, and her new biography, she helps us see Cardinal Pe...